Curse

Tainek · Jul 11, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Build
Build 1.1 (Added Worfs Suggestions)
Build 1.2 (Changed a few skills)
Build 1.3 (More Tweaks)

With Iway Bringing OoA, and most builds relying significantly on Enchantments to hold a defense, i thought i would try to make a build that didnt rely on enchants for its defense

The answer was easy, Ritualists Spirits and weapon Spells were a solution, but then i thought, if my build isnt using enchants, i might as well make it hell for the other team to use them.

So i created a 3 Ritualist Backline, one geared Similar to an Infuser, One for throwing around large heals combined with decent condition and hex removal, and one spirit spammer, to keep the team covered with protective effects

I Then Threw in a R/W Spirit Spammer, and set him for NR (To increase casting time) , Tranq (To Increase the need to use them more often) and QZ (to Punish them having to cast the enchantments more often (Higher Cost) this also makes the ritualists significantly more effective, as now under QZ, they can Really Spam the Heal Spells, where the recharges were just a touch tight before. they will not suffer the energy problems however, as now Rit 2 Will be able to keep Attuned up Perminantly (instead of 3/4 the time) and Rit 1 Can use his signet of Spirits every 10s. The Spirit Spamming Ritualist Will need to cast boon twice as often (lasts 31s) , but QZ allows for this

So now , instead of 10 energy for a 10 second enchantment, for that same 10 seconds, they have to cast twice, and spend 26 Energy, Nasty.

I threw in a Warding Ele, to help further solidify the Defense, and to assist with Obs Flame when taking down targets

Finally, the build needed some Proper Offense, so i have added in 3 warriors.

The warriors are the backbone of the Offense, with all 3 spiking different targets and enchantments such as guardian being an abomination thanks to the new recharge and costs, they should have a Much easyer time of Adrenal Spiking targets (again, assisted by the Ele)

The 3 Warriors (and to a lesser degree , the warder) are easly Changed out for a different offense, as long as it doesnt rely on enchants

Worf · Jul 11, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Sprint->Rush to Axe Warriors, better to go with Rush when you have shock.

I would also change Sword Warrior's shock to Bull's Strike, because of you cannot take Rush (Final Thrust) and you will have energy problems with Shock, Frenzy and Sprint while QZ is on.

Spoony · Jul 12, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

*yawn* imo, insufficent healing. Ritualists cant take monks job. THere needs to be at least 1 monk. i suggest Blessed light/hp one.

Tainek · Jul 12, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoony

*yawn* imo, insufficent healing. Ritualists cant take monks job. THere needs to be at least 1 monk. i suggest Blessed light/hp one.

I Fail to see your Point, Ritualist 2 can Throw around Spirit Light (162 Point Heal) at the same cost as a WoH, it might be slightly Less Healing, but it doesnt rely on <50% Hp To be effective, and with the Spirit Ritualist, There Wont be Many (If Any) Threatening Spikes to deal with

Monk Number 1 Can also Throw around 300+ Heals From Infuse every 7 Seconds Thanks to Generous Ashes

Without QZ i would agree there is no point in subtituting a monk for a ritualist, but with QZ down, the ritualists Much Stronger energy management Cant be ignored, and the recharge times are even for both of them

A monk will struggle here, they have no energy managment that wont suffer from Traq+Nr+Qz , But a ritualist will thrive

Lelle Adivo · Jul 12, 2006, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Um question:

For your second spirit spammer, the ranger: from your view why would you run a second Ritual Lord rt. since those are all under the wilderness survival attribute?

The extra minor percentage on tranquility is nice but oath shot - depending on your apponent - could be trouble.

Spoony · Jul 12, 2006, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Ah, well let me tell you something about the monks. it is a Huge diffrence in healing.

I didnt suggest WoH, i suggested a Blessed light one. But nevermind.
WoH is 5 energy, SL is 10. 1 to 0 for WoH
WoH recharge is 4, SL is 4. 1 to 0 for WoH.
Woh Casting time is 3/4 , SL is 1. 2 to 0 for WoH
WoH is an elite, Spirit light isnt. 2 to 1 for WoH
WoH can heal for 107(84+33 from DF) to 213. Spirit Light does 162. 2 to 2. Only 2 average hp diffrence.
SL may sacrafice health, WoH doesn't. 3 to 2 for WoH.

Up to your taste, but i suggested a blessed light which is.

BL is 122 health per 5 seconds with a 3/4 cast + removes 1 hex and 1 condition. And doesnt sacrafice health. SL however is slower cast, 1 faster recharge ( big deal:PP) , doesnt remove anything and can sacrafice health. Energy cost is same.

Besides, teams like heal party

Or healing whisper, thats much more effective than soothing memories, even though soothing memories can give back 3 energy back. thats 104 hp per 2 sec comparing to Soothing memories that does 106 per 6.

Id agree for Healer 1 to stay, but healer 2 , id personally change to a Woh/hp or a BL/hp monk. Besides, monks get energy from taking away hexes of allies and enchantments of foes(the long lasting ones). Or you may use signet of devotion that doesnt require energy at all. And you dont need 2 Weapons of warding. One is enough, imo.

The only good spell in that 2nd healer that is better from the monks skills is mend body and soul, just because of condition removing. And its spammable, so you dont need a copy of that, neither.

Well, but due to the elite of that 2nd healer, i think its just a matter of taste who would you take.

But if the rit has to stay, then id add spirit light instead of mend body and soul on the first healer. For more healing. you got enough condition removals already, imo.

Edit And dam! how could i forget!, Spirit transfer ftw

Tainek · Jul 12, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoony

I didnt suggest WoH, i suggested a Blessed light one. But nevermind.
WoH is 5 energy, SL is 10. 1 to 0 for WoH
WoH recharge is 4, SL is 4. 1 to 0 for WoH.
Woh Casting time is 3/4 , SL is 1. 2 to 0 for WoH
WoH is an elite, Spirit light isnt. 2 to 1 for WoH
WoH can heal for 107(84+33 from DF) to 213. Spirit Light does 162. 2 to 2. Only 2 average hp diffrence.
SL may sacrafice health, WoH doesn't. 3 to 2 for WoH.

Up to your taste, but i suggested a blessed light which is.

Some Slightly Off Logic:
WoH is 5 energy, SL is 5. 0 to 0 (The Elite Halfs Cost Remember)
WoH recharge is 4, SL is 4. 0 to 0
Woh Casting time is 3/4 , SL is 1. 1 to 0 for WoH
WoH is an elite, Spirit light isnt. 1 to 1 (Something Being Elite is NOT a good thing)
WoH can heal for 107(84+33 from DF) to 213. Spirit Light does 162. 1 to 1. Only 2 average hp diffrence.
SL may sacrafice health, WoH doesn't. 2 to 1

Healing Whipser is not a good idea, the monks having to move closer out of the backline is not a good idea

Overall its Still Pretty even

Im not arguing that a monk will make a supereor Hear, Im Arguing that under these circumstances, the lesser Healing In short amounts of time is not as much of a blow as the Hurt on energy from the Spirits

The Monks will have NO Enchantments on them, as these will be hurt by the sprits, making them inefficent

The Monks Wont Gain Enough Energy From Draining Enchants And Removing Hex's, Inspired Hex (@8 Insp) Will Earn A Measly 1 Energy Every 20 Seconds.

The Monks might have say, a 10% healing advantage, but they will also burn out MUCH faster, whereas the ritualists have some Iron Clad Energy Management

Clinically Proven · Jul 12, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

Healing Whipser is not a good idea, the monks having to move closer out of the backline is not a good idea

I'll weigh in on this point alone, HA maps often don't have defined back-mid-front lines and most of the time you'll find yourself bunched up anyway; in wards, on altars, defending NPCs and body blocking choke points.

While not so great elsewhere, with low cost and big heal, I think you'll find HW is a very GOOD idea in HA.

Horible · Jul 13, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

I love this build concept but i would have to agree with a Blessed Light healer. They are extremely good solo (without other monks) monks because of the hex and condition removal.

Horible

Tainek · Jul 13, 2006, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clinically Proven

I'll weigh in on this point alone, HA maps often don't have defined back-mid-front lines and most of the time you'll find yourself bunched up anyway; in wards, on altars, defending NPCs and body blocking choke points.

While not so great elsewhere, with low cost and big heal, I think you'll find HW is a very GOOD idea in HA.

You have a good point there, i hadnt really thought about it

I would love to incorperate a monk, but there is still no way a monk will survive long, they have no enchants for energy management, they cannot use inspired hex/drain enchants for energy management, and under QZ, they Will Suffer

Rit 1 Has the quivilent of 10 pips of energy regen (18 Energy Coming back every 10 Seconds+Natural)

Rit 2 Has Half Costs for everything

Theres no point having a monk in the build, if he cannot manage his energy, i think you underestimate the pressure on energy QZ+ No Energy Management Enchants+No Inspired hex/Drain enchant has

My Ritualists will be able to heal almost indefinatly, whereas a monk with No Energy Management Availible under QZ will not last long

If Somebody Has A monk that can manage his energy Under QZ, with no Enchantments, Please come forward

Thom Bangalter · Jul 23, 2006, 11:49 AM // 11:49

I don't even monk, but I bet something like drain enchantment/revealed hex/inspired hex/word of healing/heal party/orison/heal other/healing touch/heal other would work fine.

It's not like people DON'T cast enchantments/hexes with nr/tranq up, and it's not like qz/nr/tranq DON'T get killed by the other team.

The Warrior Builds need some help though. Disrupting chop is garbage compared to disrupting blow. Rush>sprint. Hammer warriors would help spikes, and would be awesome on spirit hunts. Charge+3 sprint warriors is totally excessive, other than to help your monks kite, and the wards already take care of that for you. If you're already doing adrenal spikes, penetrating blow is completely unneccessary with 3 warriors. make room for 3 dist blows, and you can easily interrupt blood spikes/spirit spammers. consume soul would be awesome cool also

so what I'm basically saying is for the warriors is:
eviscerate/executioner's/bull's strike/shock/rush/dist blow/frenzy/rez
sever/gash/final thrust/dist blow/consume soul/rush/frenzy/rez

there. I think I like that more.

p.s. you could go REALLY metagame and bring wild blow to get rid of opposing spirit spammer's whirling D, but it would destroy the adrenaline, and is probably not worth it imo.

-NoXy- · Jul 25, 2006, 08:20 AM // 08:20

your build might seem all cool but it's gonna get pwned my a simple Bspike. gaze//barbed tranquility//nr. game over -> you give them plenty of energy to work with, you don't have any kind of interrupts so what i going to happen ?
1. gaze the eventual fertile season (which you don't have).
2. spike on elem, which is infused. (infuser revealed himself)
3. spike on infuser (no SB).
game over.

now if u really wanna go for anti-metagame i'd say change 2 warriors (i'm not gonna discuss the monking part as it might work - never tested).
keep the axe shocker (keep sprint on shockers - ppl who say u ll have energy problems just don't know how to play one) or replace it with a thumper, as u want.
put one warrior on spirit hunt -> sword warrior with Rt elite (Consume Soul).
change one warrior for a seeking arrows interrupter.
remove EQ/AS from the elem, EQ aint that useful anymore as u tend to have to interrupt lots more than before. So keep the wards, put some spammable interrupts (even an elite if u want).
now you should have enough interrupt power to screw all spikes, enough spirit control and you kept the 2 warriors pressure.

Ruben · Jul 25, 2006, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

If Somebody Has A monk that can manage his energy Under QZ, with no Enchantments, Please come forward

Energy Drain.

Tainek · Jul 25, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by -NoXy-

your build might seem all cool but it's gonna get pwned my a simple Bspike. gaze//barbed tranquility//nr. game over -> you give them plenty of energy to work with, you don't have any kind of interrupts so what i going to happen ?
1. gaze the eventual fertile season (which you don't have).
2. spike on elem, which is infused. (infuser revealed himself)
3. spike on infuser (no SB).
game over.

now if u really wanna go for anti-metagame i'd say change 2 warriors (i'm not gonna discuss the monking part as it might work - never tested).
keep the axe shocker (keep sprint on shockers - ppl who say u ll have energy problems just don't know how to play one) or replace it with a thumper, as u want.
put one warrior on spirit hunt -> sword warrior with Rt elite (Consume Soul).
change one warrior for a seeking arrows interrupter.
remove EQ/AS from the elem, EQ aint that useful anymore as u tend to have to interrupt lots more than before. So keep the wards, put some spammable interrupts (even an elite if u want).
now you should have enough interrupt power to screw all spikes, enough spirit control and you kept the 2 warriors pressure.

I Disagree that the build would be Rolled By a blood Spike

1: Eliminating the Spirits Might Be A Trivial Task, but remember that under QZ, The Sprits Can be Layed Fresh Every 10 Seconds (Oath under QZ), if they are taking down the spirits everytime they fall, they are Wasting Half of theyre potential Spiking Just removing Sprits

2: The Infuser Has Over 600Hp, and the Ability to Throw a 300+ Heal On Himself (I.e, an Infuse). 600Hp (Spike is slow) + The ability to Heal 300Hp on Self every 7s, Spiking the Infuser is a Very Difficult Task. and this is ignoring that competent warriors should be Using Theyre Intturupts to Take two Necros out of the Equasion

However I Agree With Adding Consume Soul On one of the warriors

@ Ruben, Energy Drain is Nice, but Still not as effective as the Ritualists Energy Management, and the whole advantage of using a monk was FOR the Monk elite spell

Ruben · Jul 26, 2006, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tainek

@ Ruben, Energy Drain is Nice, but Still not as effective as the Ritualists Energy Management, and the whole advantage of using a monk was FOR the Monk elite spell

A monk has Divine Favor, Draw Conditions, Heal Party, and Rits can't run a Mesmer secondary with Energy Drain recharging twice as fast with QZ, Mantra of Concentration not to get owned by interrupters, Hex Breaker not to get owned by Migraine mesmers, 1 second cast hex removals, and the list goes on.

Ritual Lord suggestions:
Mantra of Resolve -> Mantra of Concentration : lower energy cost (plus there's QZ) and some people are smart enough to just spam their interrupts on your Rit so he runs out of energy.

Signet of Creation -> Displacement : I know this spirit doesn't last long but it can save you from a spike.

Mighty Was Vorizun -> Earthbind : You're running 3 Bull Strikes, 2 Shocks, and Earthquake. Pretty much owns the enemy.

Thom Bangalter · Jul 30, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

drop dolyak for barbed trap. no spammers run that anymore, as if the ranger is getting galed, that means they're not galing the rit lord. besides a good ranger, using nr/tranq, knowing there's a galer, will just run away and place spirits somewhere else.

warriorsmiley · Aug 29, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Looks like a fun build. Im not to sure how it will play without a real monk all u need is one real monk. other then that very good on paper. Id also probable drop mighty on the spammer and take lively aoe rez could be the difference in the game.